CM Fox
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Posted: Oct 19, 2008, 8:52 AM
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Here's a positive note to add to all the back & forth.
http://tinyurl.com/5g35xo
or if that doesn't work:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27265490#27265754
We should all have his eloquence.
If you want to read instead of watch: Here is a transcript:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27266223/
Carla
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(This post was edited by CM Fox on Oct 19, 2008, 9:53 AM)
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MarkJunge
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Posted: Oct 19, 2008, 8:03 PM
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What???!?!? Hey--this is total BS. I mean .. there's ... umm ... why, I just can't BELIEVE how much BS there is!! Even the BS has BS!!! That was the BS-iest thing I've ever seen!!!! Must be one of those radical left-wing anti-McCain/Palin conspiracies or something... 
Well, OK, just joshin'. I had to present the other side in that well-known style of debating.
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DGilbert
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Posted: Oct 19, 2008, 8:34 PM
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It was interesting (though predictable) that the right wing echo chamber on Fox started attacking Powell several days ago, in anticipation of this endorsement - then the Limbaugh chorus cranked it up this afternoon.
I expect that by tomorrow they'll be ranting about how unAmerican Powell is.
(This post was edited by DGilbert on Oct 19, 2008, 8:52 PM)
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CM Fox
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Posted: Oct 19, 2008, 11:07 PM
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Yeah...What I heard Rush say that it was "racist," ie: they are both black. Arghhh. Damn I hope we can leave that behind someday in this country.
Carla
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ScootermyDaisy
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Posted: Oct 20, 2008, 7:37 AM
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What???!?!? Hey--this is total BS. I mean .. there's ... umm ... why, I just can't BELIEVE how much BS there is!! Even the BS has BS!!! That was the BS-iest thing I've ever seen!!!! Must be one of those radical left-wing anti-McCain/Palin conspiracies or something... Well, OK, just joshin'. I had to present the other side in that well-known style of debating.
Mark--
You are too funny!
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PennyHG
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Posted: Oct 20, 2008, 12:47 PM
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From the Daily Kos in 2004:
"Uncle Tom Powell Stumps for Massah Bush
Yes suh! Yes suh! Right away suh!
Mr. Powell sir, you are a liar and an apologist for a crooked regime known as the George W. Bush administration."
And of course, now the Daily Kos loves him. This type of behavior happens on both sides of the aisle any time there is a defection (don't misunderstand and think I condone it; I think it's a part of what is wrong in politics today); in fact, I thought the dems were considering censuring Lieberman for supporting McCain. And didn't Chris Matthews call Powell a 'showcase appointment'? I can't wait to hear what he says about Powell now.
And it's funny, most of the stuff I hear about Fox News comes from liberals. In fact, I'm beginning to think that liberals watch Fox News more than conservatives. I always find out what's happening on Fox News from you, not from watching it myself.
Although, the hotel I stayed in this weekend didn't have CNN, so when Fox News started a story that was going to analyze both McCain's and Obama's housing rescue plans, I assumed that they would find McCain's to be more effective, based on the assumption that they are biased. Surprise! After analyzing the two plans, they said Obama's was more effective and more realistic! I about fell over!
I just saw a study released today that analyzed the evening news networks' stories on the two candidates since they both were formally nominated, and found that for Obama, the stories are 65% positive, while for McCain they were only 36% positive.
I question how and why the media chooses what to report and how often to report it. During the Mark Foley scandal, it was on the alphabet soups day after day after day (and not surprisingly, the blog that the story came from, that supposedly wanted to stop sexual predators, went defunct immediately after the election), until they secured the election of the democrat, who was going to bring 'morality' back to DC and 'stop the scandals'. Now that he's being investigated for improperly using federal funds to hide his affairs, the alphabet soups have been silent. If this were a Republican, it would be on the air every night and every morning. That's just one example.
The tough questions that Biden had to face from his interview with Katie Couric: 'are you worried about how to temper your debate with a woman? Are you going to change how you debate?' Given the questions she gave to Palin, I would have expected her to ask Biden, "Since Obama is campaigning as an agent of change, can you tell us what Obama has done to show that he is an agent of change?" "Do you think Obama can call himself an agent of change when he chose you for a running mate, who has been in DC for ~30 years and are not a Washington outsider?" "Since Obama says that he will bring both parties together, can you tell us what he has done to show that he plans on working with Republicans?" And the kind of tough questions Obama had to face from Matt Lauer on the Today show? "Are you worried about living up to the expectations that people have of you? (citing terms like "The One" and "Messiah")"
Liberals answers to these types of issues is that both candidates have been thoroughly vetted in the primary process. My answer is that I don't tune into the primary coverage with the same intensity that I do the presidential elections. Once a formal nomination has been made, and we know the two tickets, I think both candidates need to be re-introduced to the American people.
Point being, I view the alphabet soups, CNN and MSNBC to be an echo chamber for liberals.
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DGilbert
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Posted: Oct 20, 2008, 1:33 PM
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I don't read the Daily Kos, but if they published that, then that is reprehensible (the Uncle Tom part). But the Daily Kos is like The Drudge Report: No one would liken it to legitimate media. It is a fringe blog. It is not campaign-driven (meaning, it is not being directed by any campaign).
The race-baiting that I am talking about is the stuff that is coming directly from the campaigns: From their spokespeople, from their robo-calls, and out of the mouths of McCain & Palin directly. That is what has given this campaign a gutter level that is different.
As for CNN & MSNBS being liberal: with MSNBC, I'd agree with you. But CNN is anything but. They are straight down the middle. They ask tough questions from all sides, and have more conservative pundits on staff than liberals. Putting the label 'liberal' on various media outlets is a quick and easy way for politicials to pander to their base while waving away topics they want ignored, or questions that they don't want to answer.
As for Fox, yeah, every once in a while, they toss a bone. But every time I flip that channel on, all I hear is AyersAyersAyers; they are at the forefront of pushing all the unAmerican rumors about Obama.
As for Couric's questions of Biden, with regard to his debate with Palin: That was the question that everyone was asking. Everyone was asking about it and even though that may sound ridiculous, the reality is there is still a double standard, and if he had gotten too tough it would have looked like he was attacking a woman (as pundits were saying after a couple of the primary debates, when there was a lot of talk about the male candidates 'attacking' Hillary, and how women reacted negatively to that).
As for Mark Foley, and similar stories, what makes those big news is when it happens with someone who runs on the holier than thou, family values slate. It was big news because he was hitting on his pages, and his replacement has been in the news repeatedly about his scandal as well. That it isn't bigger news now is likely because there are bigger stories right now. And please, to try to claim that there is a double standard, and GOP pecadillos are treated more harshly in the media-- um, do you recall Bill Clinton. How many years did we have to hear about that witchhunt over his blowjob? When politicians who used that story, for no reason other than to promote themselves and their agendas, are also found to have feet of clay, that is a legitimate story.
You can always ask why certain stories get more airtime than others. How many girls disappeared and were killed, that we never heard about, and yet the media kept talking about Jon Benet Ramsey? Jon Benet's story had pictures, thus more sensational, thus more ratings, more airtime. I can name story after story like that. That's not liberal or conservative: that's business.
I don't know who released that study about the positive stories, but the reality is, if McCain's campaign is saying all that negative stuff, then the stories about his campaign are going to take on that tone as well. A campaign designs every single thing they say. The media is covering what he is giving them to cover.
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DGilbert
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Posted: Oct 20, 2008, 1:39 PM
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I had to present the other side in that well-known style of debating.
Or you could just whine, in that other well-known style of debating, employed by the graduates of the I-Know-You-Are-But-What-Am-I-Infinity School of Debate.
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ScootermyDaisy
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Posted: Oct 20, 2008, 2:01 PM
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I just saw a study released today that analyzed the evening news networks' stories on the two candidates since they both were formally nominated, and found that for Obama, the stories are 65% positive, while for McCain they were only 36% positive.
But do you really base your opinion of the candidates upon what a newscaster says?
And for that matter, do you give a lot of weight to a candidate's formal speech? We never can be sure who is writing the stuff...
I like interviews...I like to hear the candidates speak for themselves.
For example, you all know by now that I am Pro-Choice...but when I heard GOP hopeful Mike Huckabee give an interview where he talked about his philosphy being "Pro-Life--not just before birth...but all the time"...I was very impressed with him. He spoke about providing care for poor mothers and babies born with disabilites. I thought he had some common sense ideas and sounded very wise--that is, up until the point he got mixed-up with a Confederate flag controversy and then proposed "re-writing the US Constitution to more closely follow the Bible".
And I didn't need a newscaster or a blogger to change my opinion from being impressed, to thinking Mike Huckabee was a little crazy.
(This post was edited by ScootermyDaisy on Oct 20, 2008, 2:01 PM)
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PennyHG
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Posted: Oct 20, 2008, 4:05 PM
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Re: [ScootermyDaisy] What he said
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I form opinions based in part on news. For instance, any time a politician is embroiled in a scandal, something unethical, etc, I want to know about it and have it examined with equal scrutiny, no matter what side of the aisle they are on. I have no patience for corrupt politicians.
I also base my decision on what they have done, what their record is. I wish the media would spend more time examining both candidates' records. If they did, then yes, I would also form an opinion based in part on those news stories.
I do listen to what the candidates say, but then I want to know how they've lived their lives to see if they walk the walk. Barack and his supporters are saying that he will bring both parties together, but I haven't seen anything in his record to back that up. He believes in 'spreading the wealth around', yet hasn't been very charitable with his own personal money. So, I do listen to them and their interviews, but I want to know their actions as well, and wish the media would examine this more.
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ScootermyDaisy
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Posted: Oct 20, 2008, 4:11 PM
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but then I want to know how they've lived their lives to see if they walk the walk.
Yes...excellent point. We do want to know if their words match their deeds.
Which unfortunately, brings us back to trying to find the facts through the filter of the media...
A no win situation, to be sure.
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PennyHG
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Posted: Oct 20, 2008, 4:15 PM
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I know this is yet another subject on which we disagree, so I won't delve too much into it. Just a couple points:
Drudge is not a blog like Daily Kos. He links to news articles from local newspapers as well as the 'biggies' (NY Times, LA Times, Wash Post, etc). For Drudge to be a fringe outlet would make every single news source he links to fringe as well.
I disagree about the campaign's messages being what drives the news. When the whole Bill Clinton thing happened, I remember a lot of focus being placed on Monica, and remember her being demonized in the media. And now we have Joe the Plumber. Instead of the media focusing on what Barack's answer was, they're focusing on who Joe the Plumber is, how much he makes, what his actual first name is, etc. Why is Joe news? Because of the answer that Barack gave ('spread the wealth around') so the media should focus on that and make sure that Americans understand exactly what that means.
I've tuned into CNN after the debates to listen to their analysis, and I view it to be tilted left. There are other examples that I've picked up, some in their terminology: "gun control advocates vs. gun control opponents"; "abortion rights advocates" vs "abortion rights opponents". 'Advocate' connotes someone working on our behalf, while 'opponent' connotes someone who is obstructive. If we're talking about rights, then it should be 'gun rights advocates' and 'abortion rights advocates', but in both instances the conservative view is labeled 'opponent'. To me, there are subtle things like this that happen.
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DGilbert
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Posted: Oct 20, 2008, 4:42 PM
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And now we have Joe the Plumber. Instead of the media focusing on what Barack's answer was, they're focusing on who Joe the Plumber is, how much he makes, what his actual first name is, etc. Why is Joe news? Because of the answer that Barack gave ('spread the wealth around') so the media should focus on that and make sure that Americans understand exactly what that means.
No, he's not news because of the answer Obama gave him. He's news because McCain mentioned him more than 20 times in the debate. Your name gets intone more than 20 times, in a presidential debate, and yeah, the media is going to come calling and ask who you are.
The funniest things about that media scrum is that Joe the Plumber has now done more interviews than Sarah Palin, and McCain axtually had the chutzpah to claim, over the weekend, that Obama had ruined poor Joe's life (blaming the media frenzy on Obama!)
As for the spreading the wealth catchphrase being pushed now; it is funny that McCain isn't actually being called on his use of that phrase as a pejorative. McCain's healthcare plan calls for people to be taxed (for the first time) on the health insurance they get from their employers, while giving $5000 to each family, or $2500 to a single person, with this money going to even those who do not pay that much in taxes. So in this plan, McCain is spreading the wealth around too.
And of course (as much as poor Mark doesn't like to hear the word) it is bull to try yo claim that Obama is a socialist - as Palin was doing today (one wonders if she even knows what that means). The reality is, that bailout package voted for by McCain too (as well as other giveaways for big corporations) is pretty close to socialism.
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DGilbert
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Posted: Oct 20, 2008, 4:44 PM
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Drudge is not a blog like Daily Kos. He links to news articles from local newspapers as well as the 'biggies' (NY Times, LA Times, Wash Post, etc). For Drudge to be a fringe outlet would make every single news source he links to fringe as well.
With regards to Drudge, he also breaks stories, which don't always turn out to not be true.
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DGilbert
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Posted: Oct 20, 2008, 4:58 PM
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I disagree about the campaign's messages being what drives the news. When the whole Bill Clinton thing happened, I remember a lot of focus being placed on Monica, and remember her being demonized in the media.
When regular people accidentally cross paths with a big story, they are the ones who may become a media sensation. Why? First, because they are the unknown quantity, and so there is a curiosity, and second, because they are accessible. The President (or McCain, in the case of Joe Plumber) have firewalls around them keeping the media at bay. An ordinary person doesn't, and so the media can drive right up and plant a satellite truck in front of their house, and bang on their door. And often, at first, like with Joe Plumber, the attention can be deceptively intoxicating.
I think Monica was demonized for being chubby (as in why would someone like that want someone like her?) And also, of course, because of the sexual aspect.
As a side note, Monica used to work out at my gym, and in person, (on both looks and personality) you can see exactly why he (or anyone) would have gone for her.
And on yet another side note: I was talking to someone at the NYTimes on Friday, and they were saying that, because Joe Plumber likened Obama to Sammy Davis Jr, Sammy Davis Jr was the #1 hot topic (meaning his name got the most click throughs) of any topic from that news cycle.
(This post was edited by DGilbert on Oct 20, 2008, 6:26 PM)
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MarkJunge
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Posted: Oct 20, 2008, 7:09 PM
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I had to present the other side in that well-known style of debating. Or you could just whine, in that other well-known style of debating, employed by the graduates of the I-Know-You-Are-But-What-Am-I-Infinity School of Debate.
Well, actually, I was mocking you.
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Mark
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DGilbert
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Posted: Oct 21, 2008, 5:12 AM
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I had to present the other side in that well-known style of debating. Or you could just whine, in that other well-known style of debating, employed by the graduates of the I-Know-You-Are-But-What-Am-I-Infinity School of Debate. Well, actually, I was mocking you.
LOL. You think I didn't know that? And I was mocking you right back.
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Michael K
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Posted: Oct 21, 2008, 6:46 AM
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I had to present the other side in that well-known style of debating. Or you could just whine, in that other well-known style of debating, employed by the graduates of the I-Know-You-Are-But-What-Am-I-Infinity School of Debate. Well, actually, I was mocking you. LOL. You think I didn't know that? And I was mocking you right back.
I guess that makes each of you an other-mocker.
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ScootermyDaisy
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Posted: Oct 21, 2008, 7:24 AM
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And on yet another side note: I was talking to someone at the NYTimes on Friday, and they were saying that, because Joe Plumber likened Obama to Sammy Davis Jr, Sammy Davis Jr was the #1 hot topic (meaning his name got the most click throughs) of any topic from that news cycle.
Did he really make that comment comparing Obama to Sammy Davis? I ran across it and it was so derogatory, such a racist statement, that I dismissed it as just an ugly rumor to throw fuel on the fire.
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garjgoyle
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Posted: Oct 21, 2008, 7:51 AM
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Re: [ScootermyDaisy] What he said
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It was on a phone interview with Couric where he said"obama tap dances like sammy davis jr." Not really up there with "Obama bucks, where Obama's face is on a bill surrounded with watermelon,barbecue ribs and fried chicken but a good racial slur none the less.
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DGilbert
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Posted: Oct 21, 2008, 8:26 AM
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Re: [ScootermyDaisy] What he said
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And on yet another side note: I was talking to someone at the NYTimes on Friday, and they were saying that, because Joe Plumber likened Obama to Sammy Davis Jr, Sammy Davis Jr was the #1 hot topic (meaning his name got the most click throughs) of any topic from that news cycle. Did he really make that comment comparing Obama to Sammy Davis? I ran across it and it was so derogatory, such a racist statement, that I dismissed it as just an ugly rumor to throw fuel on the fire.
Yes, he is on tape saying it.
So, so much for the pretense that he was just an unbiased everyman just looking to ask Obama a question.
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ScootermyDaisy
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Posted: Oct 21, 2008, 8:29 AM
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It was on a phone interview with Couric where he said"obama tap dances like sammy davis jr." Not really up there with "Obama bucks, where Obama's face is on a bill surrounded with watermelon,barbecue ribs and fried chicken but a good racial slur none the less.
So I guess it really didn't matter how Obama addressed Joe's question...Joe was going to be against him anyway--and now he has become the "Poster Child" for the McCain campaign. How very unfortunate!
BTW--Thanks for the info...I hadn't heard about the Couric interview...only the excerpted comment.
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ScootermyDaisy
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Posted: Oct 21, 2008, 8:47 AM
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Re: [ScootermyDaisy] What he said
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It is really very disturbing to me the amount of hateful, nasty racial comments that are making their way into main-stream media.
Remember how much flack Don Imus received for the "Nappy-Headed Hos" comment on his radio show? And now, racial rants from Rush Limbaugh are replayed over and over on CNN's coverage of the elections. I don't hear the public demanding that HE be fired...
My local paper is actually publishing editorials in which the writers complain that Obama uses 'colored' speech or is not a "respectful black man". One published letter called Obama "The Anti-Christ" and compared him to North Korea's Kim Jong-Il {spelling?}. Their website is not editing comments posted by readers expressing outright anger and hatred of blacks. I can't help but wonder why the editors are allowing this?
Not to worry, though...the other night on his television show, Lou Dobbs proclaimed that he hasn't heard any racially-motivated bias and that racism is not a factor in this election. [I guess not in his studio, anyway].
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garjgoyle
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Posted: Oct 21, 2008, 9:28 AM
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Lou Dobbs and John McCain make a good team. Both are angry white men. Both roll their eyes and grimace and look long suffering and and from my point of view seem utterly without humor.
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MarkJunge
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Posted: Oct 21, 2008, 10:20 AM
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I had to present the other side in that well-known style of debating. Or you could just whine, in that other well-known style of debating, employed by the graduates of the I-Know-You-Are-But-What-Am-I-Infinity School of Debate. Well, actually, I was mocking you. LOL. You think I didn't know that? And I was mocking you right back.
And I'm mocking you mocking me with your I-Just-Know-I'm-Right-No-Facts-Necessary-Therefore-I'm-A-Thinking-Person-If-You-Disagree-With-Me-You're-NOT-A-Thinking-Person approach.
--
Mark
http://www.southwestspaces.com
http://www.markjunge.blogspot.com
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